A Digg Patriot’s Rebuttal

I was just contacted through this site by a person calling himself “Minarchian” on Digg also formerly known as “Phreeedom.”  He wanted me to post his rebuttal to the Digg Patriot story that broke out and caused havoc in the Digg World a couple weeks ago.  So I do just that.  Here are this person’s words straight from the text, no altered text:

Digg Patriot Rebuttal

I’m writing this, even though it has been “blogged, texted, twittered and otherwise massaged”, in response to the “Digg Patriots” listserv controversy at digg.com. The original story is titled “Massive Censorship Of Digg Uncovered”, written by “Ole Ole Olson”, who is also going by the username “novenator” at digg, and friends of his such as “Jordan117” and “Anamoly100”. You can find the original story HERE and there are other stories which can be found on digg posted by those associated with the story and others.

If you are not familiar with digg.com please read Note #1 at the bottom.

Why do I concern myself with this story? It’s because I was a member of DiggPatriots (DP), from early June to early August 2010. Through this article you will learn the purpose of the group, as I see it, and learn how a story about a group like this can twist its purpose into something that it is not. The purpose of the group was to support fellow Conservatives and libertarian leaning individuals, not only regarding digg but also in general, but you wouldn’t believe that if you only took novenator’s story as fact without knowing what he left out.

I had originally intended to include a short dissertation about all the errors in journalistic integrity that can be found inside this story from novenator. But I’ll save you the pain of all that by just stating that if he really wants to be a journalist, let alone an “Investigative Journalist”, as he is trying to stake a claim to being, he should seriously consider taking some classes on the subject. For if novenator had taken some classes he would know that among the main rules of Journalistic integrity are to not be a part of your own investigative story. But I’ll get into that in a few minutes.

The story is filled to the brim with hyperbole, bombastic claims and a general attitude bordering on narcissism, with grand words like “censorship” and “terror” and claims that certain people are organized to ban “Progressives”, and other sorts of crap that are meant to sway the reader’s opinion without backing the statements with neutral facts. It’s pretty much the way novenator writes all his articles, with a big stroke of a fat yellow brush to paint all those he disagrees with in one color.

Many of the rants in the story read like paranoiac ramblings from an escaped patient of Bellvue Hospital. But, even the paranoid can be partly right sometimes, as you’ll see. However, it’s when the paranoid attempts to put things together in such a way, and ignore things that don’t back up his delusions, to try to self-verify his own paranoid delusions and seeks to destroy those who he sees as an “enemy” is when reality gets skewed. The sad part is that other people, who may not have a strong sense of critical thinking, tend to believe it as well. Another thing that happens is that other people with an agenda take the distortions and make entirely new ones, such as THIS story which says a person with the username “Dilberto” was a member of DP (he was not a member) and other contrivances.

Do I actually believe him to be a paranoid escapee from a mental ward? Of course not, but that’s the same type of hyperbolic BS you’ll find in his story and it’s the same sort of cheap talk that went on between novenator and some from the DP group, including myself a few times.

Should you believe what he has written in his story? That’s ultimately for you to determine for yourself, but if you’re thinking about the details I think you’ll agree that his article is not only full of holes, but things are stretched beyond reality. Should you believe what I will be saying in this article? As far as I know I am the only one, besides novenator and his friends, who have copies of the emails.

Something that should be remembered throughout this article is that novenator is a main player behind the story, as I’ve said. You should keep in mind that some of the members of DiggPatriots and novenator go back a pretty long time at digg. He is in the habit of writing stories on his own web site, newsjunkiepost.com, that, in my opinion and many of the other DPers, are pure propaganda and outside the realm of reality and we were calling him out on it at digg. He is not someone who has been on the sidelines and who innocently ran across a “big scoop” to write about – he is part of the story.

Let the accusations fly!

Among the accusations being leveled against those in the DiggPatriots’ group are:

  1. Organized burying/digging
  2. This effort constitutes “censorship”
  3. Attempting to have digg ban those who are “Progressive”
  4. They were going back to digg after being banned
  5. Having such scale that they can bury 90% of the stories within 1-3 hours
  6. The group’s efforts constitute an “artificial” bury
  7. There were hundreds of active members within the group
  8. This all constituted “cyber stalking, bullying, and terror”
  9. Using separate user accounts to inflate digg/bury counts

Let’s go through this list, shall we?

Issue #1
Organized burying/digging

Whatever your personal feelings about this aside, would you not say that it’s within our Rights to assemble for political advocacy with like minded individuals? For if not, then what does that say about nearly every other political support group? From “get out the vote” drives (could be said to be election manipulation, in certain situations) to lobbying firms in Washington D.C. (it has been argued that this is manipulation), these organizations are meant to put out their agendas. Political advocacy is just that folks. It is trying to sway opinion to your point of view. If you don’t like it, stay away from politics!

In regards to DiggPatriots; just getting together to tell others within a private group to go to certain stories is not wrong. Digging or burying a story was not a prerequisite for being part of the group and at no time was anyone told to digg or bury a submission or they’ll be removed from the group. As a matter of fact, it was said many times that members can either digg, bury or ignore the messages, their call. It was always up to the member to do what he/she wanted to do.

Novenator himself was part of a “bury brigade” at digg LINK. During one of his remarks to another digg user he said “jsut [sic] a heads up beprogressive, never, ever call for something to be buried. Many progressives have been permanently banned for openly calling to bury some bull article like that anncoulter nonsense. It is not against the rules however to say, “check out this garbage”, “where do they get this stuff”, or “wingnut alert”, which generally calls attention to some right wing propaganda piece. Everyone knows what to do from there. I just don’t want to lose another progressive on digg, thus heads up. Cheers man”. He then followed up with “best go back and delete that shout, and the one I just sent too, lol”. Here novenator himself was teaching others how to bypass getting banned at digg and he then instructs someone else to delete what he had said. How can it be proven that someone in the DiggPatriots group didn’t learn anything from that message? And the moderators at digg know about this message, why haven’t they banned him yet? The whole purpose of novenator writing his hit piece was to get the members of DiggPatriots banned, so the same should apply to him, no?

It’s been argued that this message, from novenator to another person, is a couple of years old or so. Having been submitted back when digg had what they called “shouts”, which were short messages that can be sent between users, therefore it’s an invalid argument to bring this up. Yet there is no proof that novenator and his friends did not continue on some other medium to push for diggs and buries. While it’s nearly impossible to prove a negative, such as this, one has to wonder whether he had joined/started a group. Given the message quoted above it was among my first thoughts.

While novenator was doing exactly what the members of DiggPatriots were doing I have to wonder this as well; is it that certain people just don’t like to be questioned on their political views and will do what is necessary to squelch differing opinions? Is it “what’s right for me is not right for thee”? While political advocacy is not (yet) illegal in America there are many people who think that other people should not question their ideas and the things they do others shouldn’t be allowed to do. And by writing this story has novenator become guilty of his own claims of censorship by attempting to have digg ban all those he disagrees with?

Issue #2
This effort constitutes “censorship”

I guess one could argue it is censorship. But isn’t that the way digg was set up? All users had the ability, before the new version of digg at least, to bury submissions and comments and they used it. Every user at digg that ever buried a submission is guilty of being part of a mass bury brigade of censorship, which included most everyone on the site. While they may not have been organized while doing so, they most certainly are just as “guilty” of censoring submissions. It’s hypocritical for a user of digg to complain that someone else is censoring submissions when they do it themselves.

Issue #3
Attempting to have digg ban those who are “Progressive”

This is one of those handy little accusations that are unprovable, yet makes a big impact. In other words, it’s hyperbole. Only the moderators at digg can prove this accusation and digg’s own privacy rules would preclude them from telling anyone anyway.

How can I help but think that the writer is a bit paranoid when he makes claims that are unprovable and designed to make a whole class of people look like victims? It’s absurd to think that DP sought out those who are “progressive” and try to get them banned.

Did members of DP seek to ban someone at certain times? They most likely have according to the emails. Were most of those “progressives”? Who knows!

In the end, this is a purely bogus claim meant to rattle the troops into a frenzy.

Issue #4
They were going back to digg after being banned

The members were talking frequently about how conservatives can get banned yet other people would get away, scot-free, for the very same things. Sometimes the comments of certain people they would complain to digg about would just be deleted yet the commenter would not get banned.

There was a definite feeling, among some of the group, including myself, that there is a bias on the part of digg moderators against Conservative opinions. Sometimes a commenter would blurt out that a DPer (a member of DiggPatriots) was a “C-word” and yet the commenter would only get his comment deleted but yet a DPer would most certainly have been banned, in their point-of-view. Whether this is a fact or not is inconsequential, the mere perception of bias is enough for members of the group to complain about it amongst themselves and they had every Right to.

As an example, one DP member was banned for submitting an article that was critical of gays as being “homophobic”, even though the article was clearly an opinion piece and devoid of hatred. I won’t link to the story here because who ever might submit this article to digg may get banned himself for it. While I don’t personally agree with the story that he submitted it is obvious to me that the moderators banned him merely because they didn’t agree with the opinions expressed in it. The point here is that some members of DiggPatriots felt they were being unfairly silenced, not only by other users of digg, but by the administration of digg.com itself.

Heck, I was once banned for merely linking to an article I submitted in another article, even though it was on-topic. Digg claimed it was “spam”. Linking to another digg story within digg, that is on-topic, is spam?. It is just that easy for Conservatives/libertarians and others to get banned at digg. And why did I go back? I did because I love the hell out of digg. I love most everything about it, such as the heavy debates, the fact that there are so many intelligent people to argue with who makes you think and look up the subject at hand. It’s quite addicting and I’ve spent a hell of a lot of time there. Getting banned for frivolous bullshit is just that, bullshit. If I were banned for truly egregious behavior I would understand and move along.

In my opinion, digg needs to look into the mirror about their ban policies. The members of DP are not the only ones holding this opinion of digg and the perception of bias among a large enough portion of users cannot do anything but ultimately cause harm to the digg brand.

Issue #5
Having such massive scale that they can bury 90% of the stories within 1-3 hours

Let’s see exactly what he said:

One bury brigade in particular is a conservative group that has become so organized and influential that they are able to bury over 90% of the articles by certain users and websites submitted within 1-3 hours, regardless of subject material. Literally thousands of stories have already been artificially removed from Digg due to this group.

I’ve gone through the emails from the last two months or so when DiggPatriots were active and I counted 30 people. Of those posting to the group only about 15 were very active (with over 100 posts), and the other 15 had posted to the group only sporadically. As I have read Kevin Rose, the founder of digg.com, say and as alluded to in digg’s FAQ LINK; the more someone buries or diggs a certain web site, or submitter of a story, the less those diggs and buries count. In other words, it’s about diversity of actions among the users. So, if this is the case then how can a group of approx 15, or even 30, people manipulate stories pertaining to the front page? Their actions would be counting less and less each time. However, no one really knows what’s going on with the algorithm since digg won’t officially comment on it.

While it’s obvious that there is no way to know who was actually reading any of the messages (and acting on them) it is equally obvious that you can’t make the claim that 90% of the stories were being buried without backing it up with facts. And what would that say about the algorithm at digg? An algorithm that is supposed to balance out diggs vs buries to ensure truly interesting articles, as chosen by the users of digg, make it to the front page? If digg’s algorithm was so fragile that so little people, out of the tens of thousands of users there, can manipulate the site then maybe digg has some ‘splainin to do.

Here are some statistics from the total emails sent through DiggPatriots:

  • There were a total of approx. 6,316 messages sent to the group from June 10 to August 4
  • Out of those messages 124 submissions at digg were being called out to be buried
  • Those 124 submissions were contained in 93 emails sent
  • That’s 1.5% of the total messages asking for DPers to bury stories.

With only 1.5% of the emails sent through the system which called out to bury 124 submission how can it be said that it was some HUGE bury brigade? Digg.com receives thousands upon thousands of submissions per day, just what would be the percentage of these bury calls to the total? But if you believe novenator and his clan you’d think the heavens were falling.

Why did I say that there were “approximately” 6,316 emails? It’s because I had quit the group on Aug 3rd and returned on Aug 4th, the day before novenator released his hit piece. So there was a little less than 24 hours where I didn’t get any emails, so the actual number is probably a tad bit higher.

While it can be argued that there were many subscribers to the DP group as a whole it cannot be legitimately claimed that they all were following some form of marching orders to bury or digg stuff.

To make my point; some had posted to the group that they felt that there was not enough support for each other and wondered why; wouldn’t that show that the group was not as effective as the story would lead you to believe? Of course it does. At other times, particularly near the time when DP was deleted, there were some in the group asking why they weren’t as successful as they had hoped. There were conversations about trying to get more people added because of this and even some discussions on potential members. If they were so successful I doubt they would have been talking about not being successful.

While there were some congratulatory messages when someone hit the front page, and a general thanks to everyone else within the group, it can hardly be said that these statements were anything more than morality boosters and had nothing to do with any actual help from the group. It should be noted too that I have found no evidence of congratulatory emails about DPers being successful in getting submissions buried.

As the statistics show, the emails asking for submissions to be buried were just a small part of the discussions. Most emails were of a private nature and griping or talking about politics and certain morons at digg. That, my friends, is the pure definition of private conversations when a group of individuals get together. There was always an assumption of privacy within the group; a privacy invaded by those who stole and disseminated the messages.

In the end, this is yet another stretched out bit of hyperbole unsupported by facts or evidence.

Issue #6
The group’s efforts constitute an “artificial” bury

This is seemingly alluding to digg’s terms of use where it says:

“…with the intention of artificially inflating or altering the ‘digg count’, comments, or any other Digg service, including by way of creating separate user accounts for the purpose of artificially altering Digg’s services; giving or receiving money or other remuneration in exchange for votes; or participating in any other organized effort that in any way artificially alters the results of Digg’s services;” [highlight my own]

It would seem that the group was running afoul of the highlighted part of the TOU. But put your thinking cap on for a minute here. I’m not a lawyer but I can tell you that this part of the TOU is filled with holes.

Somewhere around the time that digg had taken out the shouts system they added links to every submission which leads to other sites, such as Twitter.com and FaceBook.com, with what seems to be a conscious decision to allow every user on the site the ability to share submissions (I don’t recall when those links showed up, they may have been there for years). Since these links cause a pop-up window to open, which allow you to change your submission to these other sites, who is to say that a great many people aren’t changing the title or description to get people to digg or bury the digg.com submission, perhaps like this twitterer? LINK

What is the difference between saying something like “Look at this piece of crap submission [link to submission]” and saying “bury this piece of crap submission”? Is the only difference the use of the word “bury”? As the example showed above, where novenator was talking about circumventing digg bans, it seems to me to be a rather harsh restriction on other people’s free speech. It’s not only banning a word from being used a certain way on the whole site but also seemingly anywhere else on the planet.

It must be remembered that digg.com can ban anyone for anything, or even for nothing at all – that is their prerogative. But that’s not what I’m talking about here. I’m talking about what can be interpreted to be an attempt at controlling speech outside the realms of digg or you’ll get banned from the site. However, their TOU does not make a distinction between speech on their own site or speech out on the intertubes, so it could be said that they are talking about speech on their site only. If digg were talking about speech that is off-site then you must remember this; digg’s TOU stop at your freedom of speech.

Staying strictly to digg’s TOU, you’ll have to admit that it is at least a rather large grey area. If for nothing else than the ability they included to post submissions to other sites while allowing for them to be changed, even changed to say “Bury this submission”.

Were the DiggPatriots breaking the digg.com Terms Of Use? It’s so grey that you can make up your own opinion on that.

Issue #7
There were hundreds of active members within the group

I really can’t say anything to this other than what I have already said about there being about 15 very active members. I never did go to any web page showing a list of members or received a list through an email. But the assumption that there were hundreds of active members is patently false, at least in the last two months of the group.

Issue #8
This all constituted “cyber stalking, bullying, and terror”

Let me get this straight.

Novenator says he was “cyber-stalked” and he goes out of his way to steal over 40,000 listserv emails (his numbers) from a private group of individuals and he then writes a story and posts it in such a way as to cause the greatest harm that he can against those he claimed stalked him. That just doesn’t pass the smell test to me. However, vendetta does pass the test. How the hell can he claim victimhood here? He can’t.

But isn’t it just grand that he claims cyber-stalking? Since he is a major part of his own story it makes it pretty hard for anyone in the DP group to rebut his story without feeling like they are fulfilling his accusations! At the same time he can go around and make new claims that no one has contacted him about the story, and are therefore hiding and guilty of his accusations, which he has said. Some set up, eh? I know that after reading his poppycock accusations that I sure as hell wouldn’t be contacting him, would you?

This is how the enemies of free speech work. They make wild accusations against those they disagree with in order to put them in a spot so that they have a hard time defending themselves without looking like they are the things that they are being accused of. Just look at the divisiveness caused by people claiming other people to be “racists”. Novenator has even alluded to the DP group of being just that, with no proof whatsoever.

He has claimed that some members of the group would automatically bury certain digg user’s submissions, no matter what they submitted and they were therefore “targeting” those individuals. And… So what? This does not constitute “cyberstalking”. I don’t know how many times I’ve read users comments on digg that said nothing more than “Fox news, buried!” or “NBC, buried!”. Is that cyberstalking as well? When these people in DP said anything about that it was their own personal choice. It wasn’t something the group as a whole followed. Again, it is novenator manipulating his story to get the biggest impact without showing a thread of evidence or thinking it through. There were other times when someone posted an email asking for help in the comments at digg. Seeing as how the group was founded in order to support each other what would one expect?

What these accusations are is whining from a person, or persons, who are mad that their political opinions have been called into question. Novenator and company (Jordan117, Anamoly100, et al) want to be able to say anything they want without anyone saying they are wrong or questioning their words. Now who’s fighting against free speech?
And with them searching out and stealing then releasing our emails, just who is the cyberstalker here?

Issue #9
Using separate user accounts to inflate digg/bury counts

I have read no factual evidence of this. I know I mentioned using an account started by one of my sons, an account that hasn’t been used since 2007, if I got banned. My family actually has three accounts at digg, all using the same IP. Does this represent a violation of digg’s TOU? If so, then digg is not very family friendly, are they? Did I ever use these accounts to inflate what I do at digg? You’ll just have to take my word for it, I did not.

There is no factual evidence that DPers were using multiple accounts to inflate their diggs and buries. Why did novenator say this? It was purely for the shock factor and an effort to support his other bogus claims.

In Closing

Remember I said earlier that a large factor behind his article is that novenator, Jordan117 and Anamoly100 are main players? The reason why this is so important is because it has bearing on legalities. Novenator is claiming to have protection under the Journalist Shield and refuses to explain how he obtained the emails. He is wrong about this and he does not enjoy the Journalistic Shield, legally speaking. Why is that? It is precisely because he is part of the story. He went on a vendetta of revenge and came into possession of emails that he had no Right to have, and he then set about to silence his critics by exposing those emails. Sorry folks, but Journalists just don’t have that kind of blanket authority to do these things and be protected by the Journalist Shield.

And how can I say that novenator is a “main player” in all this? For just one example, here’s novenator replying to a submission whose title was clearly changed from the original title, though changed later according to the original submitter. It’s something novenator was constantly haranguing other people about if it was a submission with a conservative bent, yet he overlooked those which he agreed with. In the following link you can find where a few members of the DP group had call him out on it. This is the kind of thing that was going on, not cyberstalking as he claims but challenging him on his BS. And this is most certainly the reason he, and his friends, went after the group. LINK [EDIT: It seems that the new digg has deleted the comments pertaining to this issue, but you get my point.]

If your problem with the DiggPatriots is just because they were organized then think about movements such as netroots as well. The extreme left has been organizing people through social media for years. The NetRootsNation meeting on April 17, 2009 had several discussions on organizing for web sites such as digg, in topics such as….

Developing Online Campaigns
3:15 to 4:15 PM – Apollo Boardroom

Join Jim Walsh of Wired for Change to discuss how you can create a web presence and start putting new media tools and technology to work for your organization or cause.
Rapid Messaging: Creating Measurable Impact on Society, Politics and Media

4:55 to 6 PM – 1st Floor Conference Room

Can a quirky status update, tweet, text message, social news story, or social letter have immediate and measurable impact on society, politics and media? This session, led by cultural anthropologist and Guerilla PR CEO Michael Leifer, PopRule co-founder Rob Kramer and ChangeSF founder James Hanusa will focus on effective rapid messaging using social media applications such as Twitter, Digg, Facebook, Flickr and PopRule and more.

The Wisdom of Crowds

1:35 to 2:35 PM – 1st Floor Conference Room

You might have heard the term “crowdsourcing,” but how can it work for you? Hear from seasoned practitioners who have put this concept to use in effective ways. GetSatisfaction president Lane Becker, new media consultant Gina Cooper and Beth Murphy of Digg will lead this session.

So, are people going to argue that organizing for political advocacy is only a bad thing when Conservatives/libertarians are the ones doing it? Or is it only ok when you go to an authorized meeting of other digg.com users?

What strikes me as the most dangerous thing about what novenator has done is the fact that he has passed those emails around to his friends as well. He and his friends have these people’s names, phone numbers, addresses and even medical conditions of some of them. This is pure chilling of speech for each and every one of the members of DiggPatriots.

Throughout his story he made grandiose claims that are unsupported by facts, used words that are meant to cause the greatest shock factor he can think of, took bits of information out of context and he has projected those inaccuracies into a highly spun hit piece.

He did accomplish one thing, however, and that is to get attention to his little blog and generate some income, and the same can be said for the other players in this.

He’s done just about everything one could do to show the meaning of “Yellow Journalism”.
———————————————-

NOTES:

#1 About Digg.com

As taken from digg’s “About” web page:

You won’t find editors at Digg — we’re here to provide a place where people can collectively determine the value of content and we’re changing the way people consume information online. How do we do this? Everything on Digg — from news to videos to images — is submitted by our community (that would be you). Once something is submitted, other people see it and Digg what they like best. If your submission rocks and receives enough Diggs, it is promoted to the front page for the millions of our visitors to see. And it doesn’t stop there. Because Digg is all about sharing and discovery, there’s a conversation that happens around the content. We’re here to promote that conversation and provide tools for our community to discuss the topics that they’re passionate about. By looking at information through the lens of the collective community on Digg, you’ll always find something interesting and unique. We’re committed to giving every piece of content on the web an equal shot at being the next big thing.

  • http://twitter.com/AdvertisingBlog eAdvertisingBlog

    What a nerd.

  • http://FreakOutNation.com Anomaly100

    Not only did this man and his active DP friends manipulate the system to achieve their desired outcome, he’s also lying right now on every issue he has brought up. No remorse, no saying he’s sorry for any part of it, nothing.

    I’d love for an impartial source to read the communications, which by the way, were not “private” because they were sent to almost 100 people, some of whom were new to the group so they barely knew them. This is not my decision though and the truth is coming out which will make posts such as this one as incredible as the active members themselves. At any rate, they will be available for the entire Digg community to see shortly.

    I would hope that the most active members would tell the inactive ones they are sorry instead of blaming the messenger. You can start with Clickfire. People like the active DPs are the ones that have hurt their friends the most. This post could have cleared them, instead it’s just more justification for doing something unconscionable to others.

    I would think in this world, it would be better to try to understand each other instead of building more walls. In this case, nothing good came from this group. They hurt their friends that did not participate and they’ve now outed themselves as liars.

    I feel so sorry for you Miniarchian. Try confession. It’s good for the soul.

    My thanks to the blogger for this post. It only helps our cause of bringing out the truth.

    If anyone wants to see an active DP right now, he’s using OldDogg under the name of a friend of mine, “VegetableLamb”. He’s hurling the C word at me in the comment threads. That must be a new form of patriotism.

    He is a prime example of the active members of the Digg Patriots. “Come and take it…”

    We did.

  • Minarchian

    Anomaly

    Of course you want to keep spreading your lies. It’s in your nature. I’ll wager you didn’t even read the article. You and your criminal clan went on a vendetta to shut down voices who were calling you out on your extremist hyper-liberals views. It’s that simple. And here you say that’s what the DPers were doing.

    As they say…. RTFA

  • AgeofMastery

    “formerly known as “Phreeedom.”

    http://digg.com/Phreeedom looks like that account is actually still active. But thank you for admitting your willingness to break Digg’s TOU by either having multiple accounts or making new ones after a banning.

  • Minarchian

    That’s one thing that will come out in part two of my story.

    How novenator and his cronies have taken things out of context and distorted what is happening.

    Perhaps you should ask novenator, anomaly100 and Jordan117 why they didn’t release the email that explained why I ended up with Phreedom and Minarchian.

    Never mind…they’ll never release anything that will prove they’re lying….But I will.

  • http://twitter.com/novenator novenator

    Minarchian, perhaps you would like to explain your other sleeper account at CongressCritter or why you returned to Digg after getting permanently banned as Brewskie.

  • Minarchian

    I see you are still having a hard time with reality novenator. About CongressCritter….as I said…RTFA. Dang I hate it when you extremists make wild claims without knowing the facts, but it suits you.

    As far as releasing all the emails?

    I’m not the one in legal hot water, you and your friends are. How many Cease and Desists letters have you been ignoring?

    Tell me novenator…are you going to release all the emails? Or just those that may support your lies by taking them out of context? Such as the email that says why I had both Phreedom and Minarchian. Why didn’t you release that one? Because it didn’t back up all the other lies in your “article”.

    You see, your comment proves that this is about vendetta. You have not been some person who fell into a story, you are PART of the story, therefore you are on pretty shaky ground here.

  • http://twitter.com/novenator novenator

    Newsflash: member of the Digg “Patriots” attempts to say the Digg “Patriots” did nothing wrong. News at 11.

  • http://twitter.com/novenator novenator

    I read the FA, and there was no mention in there about your sleeper account at CongressCritter, nor any mention of you being banned for life from Digg.com when you were Brewskie. Sort of blows a hole in your credibility.

    You could regain that credibility if you just release your archive of mass communications from the Digg “Patriots” Yahoo group yourself, but knowing this will only incriminate you further, you continue to refuse. What are you hiding? Why not just release the archive and let the public decide?

  • Minarchian

    As usual, you are having a hard time with reading comprehension.

    While I didn’t specifically mention the CongressCritter account I did explain it:

    ” I know I mentioned using an account started by one of my sons, an account that hasn’t been used since 2007, if I got banned. My family actually has three accounts at digg, all using the same IP.”

    Novenator. Give it up. Your article has been shown to be sham. And your methods of stealing those emails will eventually come out.

  • http://FreakOutNation.com Anomaly100

    News Flash: This DP member is also one of the guiltiest. He also doth protest too much. He gets caught, or pawned as I like to think, and he’s blaming you, Jordan and me. That’s rich, but expected.

    Then there’s the often mentioned legal issue. If I have something private to say, you can bet I won’t say it to 100 people in a mass mailing. He’s just upset he got caught and blames the messenger.

    We are not the extremists, but we are commenting to one. He said he’d wager I didn’t RTA. I aim to collect because I read every single lie.

  • http://twitter.com/novenator novenator

    So your assertion is that you do not have a sleeper account as CongressCritter. Check. I guess we will have to take you on your ‘word’ on that. Also, you once again fail to explain why you were even on Digg at all, since you were banned forever years ago as the digg user ‘Brewskie’.

    Thanks for your personal insults however, that demonstrates more than anything what DP was all about.

  • Minarchian

    Answer me a couple things novenator…

    Do you really think ignoring Cease & Desist letters are a good idea? Or haven’t you told anyone about that yet?

    Will you appologize to everyone how you took emails out of context and distorted the size and scope of DiggPatriots?

    Will you admit that you illegally came into possession of emails that were hacked from a gmail account?

    Will you admit that you blew everything out of proprotion in order to try to get some form of “street creds” as an investigative journalist when, in reality, it was all a vendetta to silence your critics on digg?

    I haven’t seen one thing from you that disputes the facts I have in my article. Because you know you can’t.

    Don’t worry novenator…I don’t really expect you to admit you’re a yellow journalist without a lick of ethical writing.

  • http://twitter.com/novenator novenator

    oh, the irony. You never said in your article, how many articles and comments did you call to be buried Minarchian? Better yet, how can you sit there and try to tell people with a straight face that that is not trying to ‘shut down voices’? Seems to be the very definition of it.

  • http://twitter.com/novenator novenator

    Why should I bother responding to your unfounded accusations when you refuse to respond to the perfectly valid points about yourself? You have offered no proof that your sleeper accounts were someone else. You have not even responded to the fact that you got 86ed from Digg with a previous account, then came back with a new username?

    According to what you write in the article, you are innocent, and if that is true, you have the power to prove it. So do it, or quit whining.

  • Minarchian

    If you’re not going to read the dog-gone article novenator there is no point in going further in the BS with you.

    Not only that, you are expecting me to prove a negative. It’s typical of your ilk. Make wild accusations that try to force your opponent to prove they didn’t do something.

    Your questions are answered in my article. Read it or STFU.

  • http://twitter.com/novenator novenator

    As I already stated, I’ve read your ‘article’ Minarchian. Twice in fact. You really need to learn how to truncate your points better. The topic of this subthread however is the fact that you have no credibility because (among other factors that I have not brought up), you just ask everyone to trust your word that your duplicate accounts as Phreeedom and CongressCritter were not a bad thing somehow, and that the fact that you were banned for life from Digg is somehow irrelevant. That speaks volumes about your character. Why should anyone listen to a word you write when you fail to respond to this?

    Again, you claim you can prove your innocence, so do it. We’re waiting.

  • Minarchian

    Novenator, for you to talk about “character” is laughable considering that story you wrote, and the distorted articles on your little blog.

    You know exactly what the issue is with Phreedom/Minarchian. You have the emails yet you refuse to release what the issue is with this. Why is that? Because it will show everyone how you twisted and distorted your story? Of course it is. I also have other emails you don’t even know about. Emails between myself and the admins at digg. You’re just digging yourself into a hole man. Are you really so dense that you can’t see the predicament you are in?

    And talking about showing innocence …what about your felonious retrieval, either through your own actions, or through “others”, of the emails? Prove you didn’t hack into a gmail account. (how does it feel having to prove a negative, eh?)

    And your refusal to do anything about the Cease and Desist letters…. that will not take long to go further up the legal channels, I assure you. You really didn’t think things through dude.

    Everything I have to say is in my article. I didn’t write it for you, because I knew you’d deny, obfuscate and continue to distort, it’s what you always do. So as the writer of the original article, what you say is irrelevant to me. All I am seeing is you twisting in your chair.

    I get an overwhelming sense in your comments and incessant demands without addressing my own questions to you that you are desperate and you know you’re on very shaky legal grounds.

    I’ll bet you’re hoping that I don’t write a Part Two which shows the actual emails, aren’t you? Don’t worry dude, as soon as I’m given the go ahead, Part Two will be out.

  • pffftt

    How many did you call to be buried?

  • http://twitter.com/novenator novenator

    That’s rich Minarchian. After 11 comment exchanges between us, you cannot (rather will not) answer a couple basic questions. You continue to try to deflect and distract, which only reeks of desperation.

    The facts are:
    1. You have 2 duplicate accounts on Digg as Phreeedom and CongressCritter
    2. You were previously banned for life as Brewskie, yet mysteriously are on Digg again as Minarchian
    3. Your refusal to address either of these basic issues completely negates any credibility you have (although as an admitted member of the Digg “Patriots”, that was never in question)
    4. You have the power to exonerate yourself (according to what you claim in the article), yet refuse to release the evidence to let the public decide for itself.

    Until you address these basic facts, all you have are deflection attempts. I welcome your Part Two, and by all means, show all of the mass communications exchanged in this Yahoo group. Go ahead and get permission from your masters like a little lap dog first though, because as psychologists have proven, folks on the right have an innate need for a strong authority figure to tell them what to do before they are able to act.

  • http://twitter.com/novenator novenator

    Zero. I challenge you to find any direct call from me anywhere to bury any digg submit at any time in my history (and I was the #2 most avid commenter on Digg of all time). Not some goofy screenshot alluding to some cryptic thing from 2 years ago, but a direct bury quote.

    Even if you could manage to find some random scrap that suggests something like this, do you honestly think this compares to a systematic censorship campaign by the Digg “Patriots” for well over a year?

  • pffftt

    “Even if you could manage to find some random scrap that suggests something like this”… That answers the question and it obviously isn’t “zero” like you said. I wouldn’t try to find proof that you told friends to bury articles. Who buries my stories on Digg is not really that important to me. It certainly isn’t worth using unscrupulous method. I asked the question more for you to answer yourself. Sanctimonious people have a longer drop down when they fall.

  • http://twitter.com/novenator novenator

    Like I said, I challenge you to find a shred of evidence that I have ever called to bury anything in my entire Digg career. If you want to read into my statement, that’s your business. Who are you on Digg?

  • pffftt

    You make some good points, but I have trouble seeing you as the arbitrator of what is right and wrong in this situation given how involved you are. How can you be taken seriously when you haven’te fessed up to your own unethical behavior? For instance, you say that Minarchian should apologize to his innocent friends for taking them down. Was Minarchian the one who posted names that he knew to be innocent just to bolster the effect of an article? Or how about the point that many have made out how you broke the Digg rules by posting your own blog which has a donate button on it?

  • http://FreakOutNation.com Anomaly100

    Your comment says, “3 people liked this” but count only two. I hit the “Liked” button instead of Reply.

    You claim we want to shut your voices down yet you were the ones burying every single post, including nonpolitical ones because you became arrogant. How many times did I tell you not to be so arrogant in the Digg comment threads? Who knows how many members of the Digg community you had banned. That can never be corrected. You justify your actions with this rubbish? You just made yourself look even more guilty. With each comment, you’ve tried to turn this around onto Novenator. He was not the one caught in this brigade of bury freaks. You were, which makes him credible and you, not so much.

    I thought your crew were all about ratings? His post in Alternet got over 11K Diggs and it was submitted by a fairly inactive digger. This got 61. We’re waiting for Part 2, although we know what it will be about. More deflections and frankly, it’s getting boring. Just to be different, try the truth next time.

    For your edification, this is not an “article,” it’s a post. You tried to silence us, no matter what we said, whether you agreed or not. Quit justifying and embrace your idiocy. This is coming out and this post will make you look even worse.

  • Ivan

    Geez.

    An awful lot of words for an answer that could have been summed up in three sentences:

    Novenator is a liar, and Anomaly100 is his best bud. They got bent because their spammy submissions from their own POS “progressive” sites weren’t making it to the Digg front page — It’s all about traffic and click-throughs they thought they deserved. BFD.

    Two accusers who have absolutely zero fucking credibility outside their own echo chamber, yet here they are ALL OVER these comments. And unapologetic at that. Why am I not surprised?

    At least Wikipedia got it right: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digg_Patriots

  • Janine

    The post on Wiki was posted by the DPers so Wiki couldn’t get anything right..

    This isn’t about making the Digg FP and you know it, it’s about a bury ring. Why am I not surprised at all the deflection

  • Ivan

    Sorry, Janine. You got it wrong. The post on Wiki was created by Rd232 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rd232

    As anyone can plainly see, not a Digg Patriot.

    Back to my original point:

    Let’s say, just for the sake of argument, I have a personal blog like http://mariopiperni.com

    I’ve got my Amazon links, my AdBrite ppc ads, and sufficient traffic I can pimp myself out for pay-per-post, if I want. To make things even sweeter, I’ve got a group of friends that help give me a little bump in the Upcoming section on Digg and get me to the FP sometimes.

    Digg’s phat traffic and those ppc ads are a sweet combination.

    Let’s be honest, though. My hypothetical site, mariopiperni.com, can’t really compete on a level playing field. Without those friends, there would be no traffic. So when they ask me to do them a favor and digg up their freakoutnation.com and newjunkiepost.com stories, you bet I will. Same goes for Joshua at joshuablog.com or Jordan at puberecord.org or any of the other nutroot p2blogs.

    See where I’m goin’ here?

    Imagine how pissed I’d be to learn some half dozen or so bozos think I’m an asshole and start burying mariopiperni.com just for giggles.

    There goes my lunch money.

    Even worse, what if they put it together and figgered out my friends and I were gaming the system and they had a whole list of websites participating in this organized effort to artificially get shit to the Digg Front Page?

    Well fuck almighty. Something needs to be done!

    So like I said, Novenator is a goddamned liar. Anyone reading the comments on this thread can quickly deduce who the other interested parties are. If you want to stick with your friends, Janine, I can certainly understand that. Birds of a feather, as they say…

  • Ivan

    @Anomaly100

    Okay, I went to OldDogg and found the user “VegetableLamb,” and looked up his comments

    http://olddogg.3rdeyeview.co.uk/user.php?login=vegetablelamb&view=commented

    Just one question: Do you really think anyone believes a single word you write?

  • http://FreakOutNation.com Anomaly100

    @Pfft: Good try except I did not print innocent names. Those are the names of the Digg Patriots. Why would I want to publish innocent names? You’re babbling. I have no way of knowing who participated if they did not communicate with the others, but I do know they received the Yahoo group communications and said nothing. I do not owe anyone an apology for publishing the names of the Digg Patriots, most especially if you consider their last words before they disbanded in 5 minutes:

    “WE’RE EXPOSED!!!!”

  • http://FreakOutNation.com Anomaly100

    That is one of the most paranoid rants I’ve ever read. You’re babbling again. Let’s get back to the basics, but first, I’ll point out that Temlakos and other DP members write for the Examiner and get paid for page views. Many people have websites and I would not point out Temlakos, except you keep bringing up ours. I don’t get paid for mine and Janine does not own Mario Piperni’s site, so your issue is moot.

    Now, Miniarchian lied here just as he did in the Digg comment threads. He gamed the system and that’s a fact. Until you read the evidence, you can not judge us because we didn’t lie. I applaud your efforts at sticking by your guilty friends. That must really suck. I’m glad I don’t have friends like that. Why are you taking this so personally?

  • Minarchian

    I lied?

    Point it out.

    Everything I posted was fact and my opinion based on those facts.

    But you’re not familiar with truth, just your own lies you wish people would think is the truth.

  • http://www.facebook.com/brooke.dunne Brooke Dunne

    > “Until you read the evidence, you can not judge us”

    Do unto others, Connie.

    Both Novenator and Jordan plainly stated more than 2 weeks ago they needed only a few more days to put their evidence against the Digg Patriots together.
    http://digg.com/tech_news/The_Drill_Down_Investigating_the_Digg_Patriots
    http://digg.com/political_opinion/Digg_Patriots_vs_The_Investigators_n_Battle_Of_Censorship

    So … Where is it?

    Since we’re on the subject, may I ask where exactly is the evidence you used to compile The “Digg Patriots” Bury List posted on your site?

  • http://twitter.com/novenator novenator

    Brooke, if it is more hard evidence you are looking for (outside of the numerous public admissions and screenshots already provided), I would encourage you to ask your Digg Patriots buddies to provide it. I’ve repeatedly asked the DP members to sign a release form so that everything can be published (thereby ‘exonerating’ them according to what they have said), but only a couple have agreed. Why is that?

    Minarchian claims he has the full archive and is willing to prove his innocence, so let him publish it. We all know if you had the archive, you would publish it, right? You have no problem publicly releasing personal information about folks after releasing someones HOME ADDRESS for the world to see on a digg discussion thread.

  • http://twitter.com/novenator novenator

    You sound like a Digg Patriot Ivan. You claim I am a liar, prove it. While you’re at it, why not reveal who you really are instead of hiding behind a facebook account that has just been set up and has no friends? No, didn’t think so. Who is the liar now?

  • Ivan

    Some fucking investigator you are. You say I’m hiding behind a “a facebook account that has just been set up and has no friends?”

    Yeah. A verified Facebook account more than a year old with over 2,100 friends.
    http://www.facebook.com/ivan.forsch

    Who is the liar now? Well obviously you are. Again.

  • http://twitter.com/regeya Shane Simmons

    As a frequent victim of the mass burying, I have this to say:

    If you suppress the ideas you don’t agree with, and go to the lengths you guys went to to bury anything you didn’t agree with, you don’t believe in the American way.

  • Anonymous

    Which of the accusations was unfounded?

  • Mollydog

    I just found out about this so I’m a little late posting reply. As one of the more active Digg Patriots I thought Novie’s piece was a laugh riot. This pathetic bottom feeder, who haunts the social networking sites, spent an entire year of his life stealing the private correspondence of a small group of people, and then created a fiction about a vast group of conservatives “gaming” Digg.

    I’ll get right to the punch line. Digg, you know the site who’s chastity and terms of service the virtuous white night “Novenator” had appointed himself guardian of, didn’t give a rats ass about what he “uncovered”. Even though he published a list of all the Digg patriot names, (even the 90 % who were never active, which the emails he stole clearly show), AND ALL THE ALIAS’S THEY HAD USED AND WHICH HAD BEEN BANNED AND ALL THE ALIAS’S WHICH WERE NOT BEING USED BUT WERE ACTIVE ACCOUNTS, and Digg didn’t ban a single Patriot.

    Let me repeat that. Digg, which was given a list of DP’s, their alias’s current and banned, and pages of out of context cherry picked quotes from over 6,000 emails, AND THEY DIDN’T BAN ANY DIGG PATRIOTS. In fact, many of us, including myself, were asked to participate in the Digg beta testing of Digg v 4. I don’t even know how he has the stones to appear on any social site after Digg made him look like such a jack ass.

    I do agree with Anomaly that all the emails should be published. There were pictures exchanged of people’s pets and children, recipes, good natured bantering about what’s the best beer and which sports team is going to win what.Burying morons like Novenator was a DP sideline that only about 10 -15 people did with any regularity and it had less to do with politics than the joy we got when Novie would put up another sissy post about how the world was being denied his genious because he doesn’t have an audience. If he had ever stopped whining I’m sure we all would have moved on to better things like pigs with 3 heads and top ten lists of the best topless beaches.

    Yes Anomaly, publish them all, there’s nothing i would enjoy better thatn to see Novie make an ass of himself again.

  • Mollydog

    Novie, still spinning it i see. How many of the 6,000 emails were bury calls ? How many users actually made bury calls out of the almost 100 you say belonged to the group. (The answer to the first question is under 2 % and the answer to the second question is less than 10).

    You dishonest hack, you’ll never publish anything but your out of context quotes because you know, as i do, that by publishing the entire store of emails any fair observe, or anyone who did even rudimentary statistical analysis on the messages, would know how dishonest your representations about the group have been.

    What do you and Obama have in common ? You’ve both gone as far as you’re ever going to go in life.

  • Mollydog

    Anomaly,

    Stop it. At best there were between 10 – 15 DP’s who were active several times a week. There was no “Leader”. It was a loose confederation of like souls from all over the country and some foreign countries as well. Really, it was just a small group of folks who met in the either, liked each other, and had alot of fun sticking needles into pompous asses like yourself and Novie. Smoke some reefer or something and try to get your perspective and sense of humor back.

    You actually think violations of the Digg TOS, which are routinely violated by many on the site and Digg couldn’t care less about, rises to the level of a Speech issue !? Get a lifed. must suck to be you.

  • Mollydog

    Anomaly,

    Anyone who had 6,00 emails from the group and went thru them had to know that 80 – 90 % ofthe “members” never participated. They were slandered because Novie had to make it appear that the group was larger and more powerful than it was.

    Publish every email. You’ll see beyond any doubt there were only 10 – 15 active DP’s. But to a lying POS liek Novenator the “Expose” was written long before he had any “proof” and the “proof” will never support his accusations.

    You’re apprently just along for the ride, which is pretty pathetic in and of itself.

  • Mollydog

    Novenator,

    I think I can speak for Brew that no one gives a shit about your appointment as the Digg judge and Jury and final arbitrator of all things TOS. May I repeat, Digg, which last I heard runs the site,didn’t ban any of us despite your grotesque fantasies. In fact, many of us were asked to comment on Digg v 4. Go figure. You not only don’t have an audience, the management of Digg doesn’t give a shit about you either.

  • Mollydog

    Novie,

    I think if anyone needs to be concerned about thier credibility it’s you. Did you ask Digg why they didn’t ban any Digg Patriots for their TOS violations you “uncovered”, not to mention the conspiracy to take over the country !!!

    Did they even give you the courtesy of a form letter ?

  • Mollydog

    Anomaly,

    Guilty of what you moron, Digg TOS vilations ? Hmmmmmm, didn’t seem to bother DIGG much. Didn’t ban any of us.

  • Mollydog

    Iavan,

    Nailed it. Kudos o you. They really are such hypocrites.

  • Mollydog

    Novenator,

    You poor sad, little child. No one is signing anything for you. To have that kind of pull. Now, to borrow frofm Anomaly, SCTT !!!

  • patriot my butt

    You stupid people were the reason Propeller.com was shut down and are now pulling the same crap on Sodahead.com. Your pathetic fascist points of view are nothing without you gaming the system to make them appear somewhat less than dispicable. There is a special place in hell for people like you!